I have an idea, does it already exist? anyone interested?

Youness Alaoui kakaroto at kakaroto.homelinux.net
Sun Jan 2 06:13:56 EST 2011

On Thu, Dec 30, 2010 at 4:48 PM, David Smith <catfish.man at gmail.com> wrote:

> I would find any sentence containing "most people" and "vi" (or even ssh)
> extremely suspect. Of the five people currently in the house I'm in, for
> example, I'm the only one even capable of doing that, and I have no reason
> or desire to. Am I missing something?

haha, that's a very good point :) Well, the ssh/vi was for my use case, but
still, a lot of people do complain in amsn forums about not being able to
read their logs in notepad/whatever because the format is 'weird'.
I wouldn't say "most people", but I'd still say a significant portion of the
users want that feature.

> As for log format standards, there was a valiant attempt by Adium
> developers and Pidgin Summer of Code students, but it ended up not getting
> much/any adoption outside of Adium. I would say things to consider are:
> searchability, portability, convertibility, quick access to the last N
> messages (many clients pull the last messages from a chat for context when
> opening a new chat, and lag there is unacceptable), preservation of message
> *and* chat metadata, and preservation of attachments (direct IM images for
> example).
Humm.. not getting much adoption outside of Adium, but is it because it
sucked? or just because noone cared? If their solution is good and efficient
and well documented, we might as well use it and try to standardize it.
About the requirements, it's a good idea to try to get a list of
requirements and quantify them. I'd add to the list "easily/quickly get the
log size", aMSN has a "sort contacts by log size" for the contact list.

> One thing that occurs to me is that storage on most devices is large enough
> these days that it might be acceptable to store some sort of package file
> with both a human-readable text representation and a full-metadata database
> or markup representation of some sort.

That's a great idea, keep a .txt format and a more complete log at the same
time, this way everyone is happy.. the issue with that is the confusion to
the users : "I don't understand, I deleted the log, how come it still shows
it to me in the log viewer of the app!", but I think that's not a big deal
(if .txt file is missing, delete db file, or put both files in the same dir
with similar filenames, so the user can see them and delete them both if
he's not too dumb, etc..)


>        David
> On Dec 30, 2010, at 1:18 PM, Youness Alaoui wrote:
> > From experience, I'd say most people want to browse their logs with a
> simple text editor (vi/less over ssh).
> > Having a standard is a good idea though, I just don't know anything about
> couchdb so I can't really talk about whether or not it's a good idea to use
> it.
> > I think it's important to ask questions like 'is it scalable?', 'can you
> group messages?' (for example a message from X on a private chat, versus on
> a group chat).
> > I think the telepathy team should be included in this talk, their
> telepathy-logger would also benefit from a standard format (see
> http://telepathy.freedesktop.org/wiki/Logger ).
> >
> > KaKaRoTo
> >
> > On Thu, Dec 30, 2010 at 10:23 AM, Mariano Guerra <
> luismarianoguerra at gmail.com> wrote:
> > On Thu, Dec 30, 2010 at 12:20 PM, Roger Duran <roger at rogerpc.com.ar>
> wrote:
> > > I think it's a great idea.
> > >
> > > Also desktopcouch, the version ubuntu has, its on freedesktop
> > > http://freedesktop.org/wiki/Specifications/desktopcouch
> >
> > from what I see we should define a format for "Conversations" and try
> > to add it to the desktopcouch specification.
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